tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7164206822403278866.post3994322027995433373..comments2024-02-27T07:05:52.851-05:00Comments on Beth Revis: What is Love?Anonymoushttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11431700962951592287noreply@blogger.comBlogger26125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7164206822403278866.post-68951790860103135822011-12-29T23:32:46.205-05:002011-12-29T23:32:46.205-05:00I don't agree with you. JK Rowling herself sa...I don't agree with you. JK Rowling herself said that Lily could have grown to love Snape if he hadn't been so enthralled by the Dark Arts. They were best friends for a long time. They did have a degree of mutual affection, one for the other. You are way too hard on Snape. Harry was the emodiment of both James and Lily, which made being around Harry and dealing with him very hard for Snape. Harry was a living reminder that Lily had chosen someone else. I thought he did pretty well, all things considered. In the end, I think Lily left both James and Severus behind in her heart. She loved Harry, her son more than either of them.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7164206822403278866.post-38366032905139907852011-08-29T09:40:39.176-04:002011-08-29T09:40:39.176-04:00For those wishing to delve deeper into this subjec...For those wishing to delve deeper into this subject I can't recommend more highly C.S. Lewis' The Four Loves. "It must be noted, states Lewis, that just as Lucifer—a former archangel—perverted himself by pride and fell into depravity, so too can love—commonly held to be the arch-emotion—become corrupt by presuming itself to be what it is not."F. S. Poesyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13201920550959255201noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7164206822403278866.post-46477721997098710202011-08-19T14:49:29.690-04:002011-08-19T14:49:29.690-04:00I just ended up reading this now, but what a fanta...I just ended up reading this now, but what a fantastic and insightful post, Beth. Thank you so much for sharing- I love reading posts like these.<br /><br />One of the first things I thought of as I was reading this is how in the Bible, there are many different words that simply translate to "love" in English. Just look at the different Greek words there are to describe different kinds of love: agape, eros, philia, and storge. I'm not sure if your "obsessive" love falls into any of these, but it's a start anyways ;)<br /><br />And I agree with you about Twilight as well- I just couldn't buy into that concept of true love portrayed there. It was the same issue I had with Tabitha Suzuma's Forbidden; it didn't sound like a healthy, positive love for me (even if they hadn't been brother and sister). <br /><br />Brenna from<br /><a href="http://everafteresther.blogspot.com" rel="nofollow">Esther's Ever After</a>Brennahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10514638012223235684noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7164206822403278866.post-75996673666898590062011-08-16T16:23:27.897-04:002011-08-16T16:23:27.897-04:00Scientifically speaking love comes in 3 parts. The...Scientifically speaking love comes in 3 parts. The first stage is lust, the obsessive love you're discussing here. The second stage is a form of limited commitment, and the third stage is a long-term mutual commitment. <br /><br />True love is a mutual expression of love, caring, support, and more very complex emotions. It is a measurable, testable phenomenon in the lab environs (I did a 3 part series on my blog if anyone wants the chemical details), but I think most people don't get past the LUST stage.<br /><br />To selfishly want someone - that's lust, not love. <br /><br />I don't think Snape ever moved past the lust. He wanted Lily, he lost her, and he never moved on. In many ways he is emotionally crippled by Lily choosing James. That's hardly true love.<br /><br />But love does start at that point of attraction. Lust and obsession have their place. The danger is when people become mired in the selfish obsession and can't move on.Liana Brookshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14587774916354749190noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7164206822403278866.post-10794392764772752792011-07-23T03:59:43.487-04:002011-07-23T03:59:43.487-04:00Wow, great post! We definitely need more words for...Wow, great post! We definitely need more words for love instead of using the same word for everything.<br /><br />I find that I get annoyed if the relationship in a novel never advances beyond obsessive love, especially if the people involved sacrifice a lot for it. I understand your point about teenagers mostly experiencing obsessive love, but I still prefer reading about love that has more substance to it than infatuation and lust.lindahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16524291742541007382noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7164206822403278866.post-49310884418689718182011-07-20T08:15:15.597-04:002011-07-20T08:15:15.597-04:00This is excellent, Beth. I'm going to share i...This is excellent, Beth. I'm going to share it.<br /><br />I agree with you about the Toddlers and Tiaras paragraph. I recently wrote a short story inspired by child beauty pageants, which will be published in October. The story brings home the exact point about love.<br /><br />You are so right about parental love. In the first months after I gave birth to my son, I used to be overwhelmed with sadness because if I died at that moment, my son wouldn't remember me, wouldn't know the fierce love I felt for him. I realized it would take years before he could truly reciprocate and have memories of our time together. Feeling such an intense, mostly one-sided love is intense. But it develops into a two-sided love. But never equal. Then again, what love is exactly equal? <br /><br />I'm conflicted about Snape's love for Lily. But I'm with you on Twilight. Reading that book made me shift uncomfortably. It was obsessive and paternal.Theresa Milsteinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03477761307315565259noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7164206822403278866.post-64506429389460962592011-07-19T11:44:33.844-04:002011-07-19T11:44:33.844-04:00I think I would agree with most of your post. The ...I think I would agree with most of your post. The only exception I have is about a child's love. While it is not equal to the self-sacrifice of a parent, it is humble, meek and, at times, exceeds parental love in its unconditionalness, much like the love of a dog.Mary Annhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10552979783334601692noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7164206822403278866.post-50471927513268221822011-07-19T10:04:40.112-04:002011-07-19T10:04:40.112-04:00Personally I believe that all love is true. I'...Personally I believe that all love is true. I'm not saying you're wrong about obsessive love, only that obsession isn't love. People do often call it love, though, you're certainly right about that.<br /><br />I completely agree that we need more words for love. I mean if you love a sibling who is a hopeless drug addict, incapable of loving you back, that's still love. Is it true love, though? Maybe not.<br /><br />On a side note, is that Meriadoc Brandybuck in that Eminem and Rihanna video? Awesome.Matthew MacNishhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03264738483763244969noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7164206822403278866.post-85845139704336531572011-07-19T02:45:08.162-04:002011-07-19T02:45:08.162-04:00Great post. I agree with all points. It's inte...Great post. I agree with all points. It's interesting. I always wanted to figure out Snape's feelings for Lily and Harry, understand his point of view, and I didn't really get it until you put it this way. And it makes perfect sense. I think this is good to keep in mind while writing. I definitely put in obsessive love at first with my characters, and it then deepends into something real, or at the very least a good solid friendship.<br /><br />And BTW LOVE the Haddaway video. That was a fav. song of mine as a teen!Kathryn Packer Robertshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16506942804607936833noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7164206822403278866.post-75266656867269541682011-07-18T23:12:25.959-04:002011-07-18T23:12:25.959-04:00BRAVO! *claps*
Without getting all spoilery, I di...BRAVO! *claps*<br /><br />Without getting all spoilery, I did like how you showed obsessive love can lead to poor decisions. That was pretty awesome. :)<br /><br />My pastor once quoted an old song with the line "I'll follow you anywhere" and then said this:<br /><br />"That's romantic until you break up. Then it's stalking." <br /><br />Seems as good a criteria as any. Would you find this person's actions romantic if you had just broken up with them? If not, it's probably obsessive. :)Miriam Forsterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08773194271144793485noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7164206822403278866.post-52094472552795365232011-07-18T20:44:22.520-04:002011-07-18T20:44:22.520-04:00LOVE. THIS. POST. Well said my friend. ::Jennie ...LOVE. THIS. POST. Well said my friend. ::Jennie picks up Nicole's slow clap::Jenniehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16547056402095320893noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7164206822403278866.post-38367416398987296212011-07-18T17:44:56.513-04:002011-07-18T17:44:56.513-04:00Thank you for this! I've always agreed about S...Thank you for this! I've always agreed about Snape's love for Lily. Obsessively spying at her from behind the bushes? Willing to sacrifice the people she loves most, her husband and son, to be able to have her for himself? Definitely not true love.Ayleehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07639250102446794830noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7164206822403278866.post-17130494885618828762011-07-18T17:28:17.299-04:002011-07-18T17:28:17.299-04:00Brilliantly written! I agree with everything you s...Brilliantly written! I agree with everything you said, especially about Snape (and I'm going to forward this post to my husband because we've had a few Snape debates ourselves :D).<br /><br />I think the Greek got it right where it comes to different words for love:<br /><br />Eros - Passionate love<br />Agape - True love<br />Philia - Friendship/Brotherly love which is dispassionate and virtuous<br />Storge - Affectionate love<br /><br />It's too bad we can't translate those over to English. "Love" is just too simple a word for such a complex thing.Emilyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11199624998247618525noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7164206822403278866.post-86338039674255357062011-07-18T17:27:32.685-04:002011-07-18T17:27:32.685-04:00YES to Snape.
YES to Twilight.
YES to your ongoi...YES to Snape. <br />YES to Twilight. <br />YES to your ongoing philosophizing. <br /><br />I agree completely. I remember reading Wuthering Heights for the first time in High School, with my teacher going on and on about how romantic it was, and I raised my hand and was like, "WTF? This isn't romance--this is infatuation! This is a reciprocated obsession these folks have!" and ever since then I keep finding it, like you said, especially in YA. But it's certainly the majority in a lot of adult books and movies (don't even get me started on movies) as well. <br /><br />I'm currently writing a story where a husband and wife are in obsessive-love with each other. The husband is crazy infatuated, but extremely abusive. The wife is obsessed with how much she hates her husband, which is a form of infatuation. Then she has an affair with the hero poster-boy, only to find she's once again gone for a facade. <br /><br />But don't worry, she finds true "wuv" eventually.Christine Tylerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08711726941768571495noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7164206822403278866.post-39421238689045031042011-07-18T17:06:36.712-04:002011-07-18T17:06:36.712-04:00Interesting post! I think love is really complex a...Interesting post! I think love is really complex and I think it is also subjective. We can call love so many things--obsessive, true, friendship, puppy, and so on. But I think the individual doing the loving and receiving the love (or not), can only say what love is to them. I think all kinds of love is real and true...it's just might not be real and true to you.Nicole Settlehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06205918337710478398noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7164206822403278866.post-3890887402747778872011-07-18T16:54:42.303-04:002011-07-18T16:54:42.303-04:00You hit the nail on the head. Part of the reason w...You hit the nail on the head. Part of the reason why I'm so not a fan of romances and romantic things in general. Its not real. Its just obsessive. You rock! :)Julia @ That Hapa Chickhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04961460353502898001noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7164206822403278866.post-84030493522962253192011-07-18T16:39:10.829-04:002011-07-18T16:39:10.829-04:00I agree with everything you've said here -- th...I agree with everything you've said here -- the attraction you feel for someone you're still getting to know, no matter how powerful the feeling may be or how many "facts" you may know about that person's tastes and interests, is not love. True love only comes when the first blaze of attraction has faded enough to give us a clearer picture of who our loved ones really are, and we recognize their faults and foibles and weaknesses as well as their virtues and desirable qualities. If you still think the Beloved is perfect in every way or even in most ways, you're "in love" with an illusion, not a real person.<br /><br />Infatuation is a feeling. Passion is a feeling. And feelings change and fade, so they can't be depended on. True love is an act of the mind and of the will, not just the heart.<br /><br />But having waxed philosophical about the nature of love, I'll add a practical consideration -- it's incredibly hard to develop a believable True Love story over the course of one book, even if that book is 80 or 90K. Communicating attraction and passion is much easier, and people respond to it more immediately, and I think that's why so many novels focus on Obsessive Love rather than True Love.<br /><br />Personally, I most enjoy love stories that grow out of two people being attracted to each other's minds and sharing common interests -- in short, friendship -- rather than how gorgeous he is or how good she smells or whatever. But those stories are definitely more of a challenge to write and pull off successfully.R.J. Andersonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04503519800068573393noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7164206822403278866.post-10349662123611555322011-07-18T15:50:38.199-04:002011-07-18T15:50:38.199-04:00GREAT post. Very thought-provoking. I think one of...GREAT post. Very thought-provoking. I think one of the interesting things about TWILIGHT was that Edward's love for Bella seemed to go from obsessive, to true, and then back to self-sacrificing/obsessive-ey again. At least, that's the way I read it.<br /><br />You've given me a lot of good things to think about as I work on my revisions...<br /><br />Thanks for sharing your thoughts. :-)Ishta Mercuriohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17776946702988283453noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7164206822403278866.post-10239762855096397392011-07-18T15:50:16.996-04:002011-07-18T15:50:16.996-04:00Beth--thanks for the informative post.
As you m...Beth--thanks for the informative post. <br /><br />As you mention with the different terms for "snow"; it would require me to slow down periodically and reflect on concepts such as love to best understand rather than just use a label that society has deemed as a "comprehensive."Slamdunkhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13087161268629251860noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7164206822403278866.post-78093102394369051412011-07-18T15:03:01.595-04:002011-07-18T15:03:01.595-04:00I'd go a bit further than obsessive. Creepy, s...I'd go a bit further than obsessive. Creepy, stalker, something along those lines.Joshua McCunehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17367262185912463258noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7164206822403278866.post-61061897887669061902011-07-18T14:38:20.541-04:002011-07-18T14:38:20.541-04:00*applause*
Excellent article! I agree with you ent...*applause*<br />Excellent article! I agree with you entirely.Emilyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11904779840104791297noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7164206822403278866.post-66241178146077008572011-07-18T13:30:07.059-04:002011-07-18T13:30:07.059-04:00I completely agree. The purest form of love I have...I completely agree. The purest form of love I have ever experienced is for my son. It's hard to describe to others unless they're a parent who truly loves their child.Christine Rainshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08263694662585963900noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7164206822403278866.post-34055441805378837412011-07-18T13:26:17.444-04:002011-07-18T13:26:17.444-04:00Okay I a really going to stop analyzing - just cre...Okay I a really going to stop analyzing - just creates more questions! But I do want to point out that Snape's bitterness may not just have do to with James but also maybe blaming Harry for Lily's death (since she died to save him) Had Lily lived (esp. if James did not Snape still had a chance -- in his mind anyway) His protection of Harry was to honor her sacrifice & guilt he was unable to protect her?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7164206822403278866.post-65154442264205602422011-07-18T12:52:34.527-04:002011-07-18T12:52:34.527-04:00I don't know if I completely agree with you on...I don't know if I completely agree with you on this. But, may I say, as someone who has probably never really experienced any kind of love, other than having a crush on someone, almost to the point of being what you call and obsessive love, maybe that's why. But then again, I've never been loved by anyone but my family, so maybe to me, an obsessive love like Edward has for Bella sounds wonderful. But I do see what you're saying, and it makes me think. However, I don't know if I agree that obsessive love is completely self-sacrificing like Snape was at the end. Just my opinion, but as I said, I do have to stop and think about what you've written about here.Lisa Mandinahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02691593776280004137noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7164206822403278866.post-56342525782326326192011-07-18T12:51:07.462-04:002011-07-18T12:51:07.462-04:00Thank you for this thoughtful post. I agree! Oh, a...Thank you for this thoughtful post. I agree! Oh, and I loved the Eminem video. :) ~ Jen <i><a href="http://bookandlatte.blogspot.com" rel="nofollow"> @ A Book and a Latte</a></i>newshadeofgreenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12259967632568904647noreply@blogger.com